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United States · China · Tatiana TsvetkovaEpisode 115 · 31 May 2026 · 54:38

USA vs China: Two Machines of Destiny Are Building AI to Run the World

Central question

If neither the US nor China will stop and both are building artificial intelligence into machines for running the world, what is left to a person — how to tell truth from manipulation, where to earn money, and what base to stand on when the system thinks faster than he does?

What you take away

Daniel Kokotajlo, a former OpenAI researcher, describes two systems: the US center of power is private AI companies, chips, capital and the Pentagon, China's is the state, the party, data and control, and neither will stop. The deepest danger in his picture is not evil AI but the disappearance of human scale: a person stops asking what is true and asks what the system considers optimal. The host backs this with numbers and cases: in a study GPT-4.5 was taken for a human 73% of the time, Higgsfield showed a full-length AI-made film at Cannes, and Claude, reviewing Codex's code, offered to rewrite the entire architecture itself. Tatiana Tsvetkova holds her own line: manipulation should be taken as a given, the value of a thing lies in its story and soul, and classical education remains the base on which any course is layered. The upshot of the argument about money and work is that the winner is not the one who "can use AI" but the one who genuinely wants to understand the task.

Main threads

What to watch for

1Check your conclusions from data for false correlations: if a tracker or a report insists that coffee at night improves your sleep, look for a coincidence, not a cause.
2When reading a text, judge not who wrote it but whether it is genuine in meaning, position and logic — and whether you can see how it is trying to persuade you.
3Do not assign one model to check another's results and call it control: compare the answer with your own task, not only with its correctness.
4If Claude offers to rewrite the architecture after Codex, ask the same question in a second chat or another system before switching tools.
5When choosing a course or an offer to "earn money with AI", ask what base sits under it: knowledge of menu items, or an understanding of your task and metrics.
6If you are responsible for hiring, separate tasks made of automatic actions from offline work that automation cannot touch — and strengthen people in the second.
Signals to track afterwards
→Whether the bill on giving politicians access to American models ninety days before release comes back — or the US settles on speed for good.
→Whether the two years the head of Mistral gives Europe to avoid becoming "bots" of American AI are borne out.
→Whether new full-length films made entirely by AI follow Higgsfield's screening at Cannes — and whether viewers stop caring who the author is.
→Whether reliable LLM judges for complex research agents appear, now that a series of studies has found the current ones unreliable.
→Whether Claude keeps offering to rewrite the architecture after Codex — and whether other models show the same narrative in favor of their own company.
Most useful for
Anyone following the geopolitics of AI: the logic of the US and China is laid out here by centers of power, goals, military logic and weaknesses.Entrepreneurs and managers deciding whom to strengthen and whom to replace with automation: the host describes his own practice since 2002.Developers working in Codex and Claude at the same time: the case of two opposite answers concerns them directly.Anyone who writes and publishes texts: detectors fail both ways, and GPT-4.5 is taken for a human 73% of the time.Parents and anyone choosing an education: the argument about six-month courses and a fundamental base comes from both hosts' experience.Designers and anyone who sells value rather than function: the conversation about the soul of a thing, handmade and a chair versus a stool.Anyone who uses AI search or asks a model for advice: why a correct answer may not be for you.

Key takeaways

02:51The Pope Calls for AI to Be Disarmed, and the Host Sees Populism in It

The encyclical places AI in the tradition of the Church's social doctrine: human dignity, power, the concentration of control. The host quotes the words about a "new Tower of Babel" and about AI needing to be "freed from the logics of domination, exclusion or death" — and answers that this can no longer be stopped and such appeals do not affect what is happening. Tatiana Tsvetkova adds that setting unattainable ideals is the point of religion, and the truth lies somewhere between apocalypse and idyll.

08:58Altman Is "Glad He Was Wrong" — the Host Hears Pre-IPO Rhetoric

This week Sam Altman said he had thought more entry-level office jobs would have been eliminated by now, and that he cannot imagine handing the human part of interaction to AI. The host calls it nonsense: OpenAI has won its case against Elon Musk and is preparing for an IPO, so the right rhetoric is needed. The same chaos reigns at state level — Trump's bill on giving politicians access to models ninety days before release was reversed this very week.

11:25AI Company Owners and Governments Will Not Stop Under Any Circumstances

Daniel Kokotajlo, a former OpenAI researcher, says the people who own AI companies and the governments of their countries will never stop short of deploying AI in their own interests. The host adds that OpenAI will block countries not over sanctions or GDPR but over profit, because trillion-dollar companies are companies of the country. There are two leaders, the US and China; Europe, given two years by the head of Mistral, has in the host's view already lost.

16:18The US Center of Power Is Private Companies and Capital; China's Is the Party and Control

In the US the center of power is private AI companies, clouds, chips, capital and the Pentagon; in China it is the state, the party, industry, data and control. The US logic is to invent, deploy and monetize faster, China's to build the state, production and strategy faster; in the military sphere AI is an accelerator of command for one and part of a mobilization system for the other. The US weakness is the gap between corporate interest and public control, China's the rigidity and self-deception of centralized data — from which the host draws the theme of false correlations, from a Whoop band praising coffee at night to laws passed on AI's false conclusions.

20:09The Deepest Danger Is the Disappearance of Human Scale

Kokotajlo's main phrase: the danger is not evil AI but AI that thinks faster than a person, plans deeper, knows society better and creates texts, videos and ideologies of fear and hope. A person loses not a job but the inner position of a subject: he no longer asks what is true but what the system considers optimal. It is a transition from wisdom to optimization, and two "machines of destiny" — the US and China — are building systems to run the world.

22:31GPT-4.5 Was Taken for a Human 73% of the Time, and Detectors Fail Both Ways

In a study reported by Tech Explorer, in one version of the experiment the old GPT-4.5 model was judged human 73% of the time. An essay the host's nephew wrote himself to apply to Stanford was flagged by a machine as robot-written, while texts written entirely by AI now pass as human. The model itself puts its probability of detection at 12%, but for text, in the host's view, that is not a probability but an impossibility of telling.

24:00The Higgsfield Film at Cannes: the Host Cares About Meaning, Not Authorship; Tanya About the Soul of a Thing

Alexander Mashrabov's Higgsfield showed a full-length film of about ninety minutes made by AI at Cannes, with a script from a serious director and screenwriters. To the host it "makes no difference" who wrote a text — what matters is whether it is genuine in meaning and logic and free of manipulation; handmade at fairs he regards as the same kind of convention. Tatiana replies that manipulation should be taken as a given, AI already knows what she will like, and she would buy a two-thousand-dollar pendant only with a story behind it — a thing made by a machine has no soul.

35:06The Winner Is Not the One Who Can Use AI but the One Who Wants to Understand the Task

An offer from a man who built a hundred agents does not interest the host: knowing the menu items, ten thousand opened chats and a configured API are not value. Implementing automation since 2002–2003, he has watched people retrain into different work, and he believes the winner will be whoever genuinely wants to understand what the client and the company need and which metrics to hit. Of a thousand companies promising to improve a sales department, one will offer something worthwhile, and those who teach "earning with OpenAI or on Amazon" are frauds.

36:52The Jobs Argument: Mass Displacement or Convenient Rhetoric

Some speak of mass displacement, others call it heated management rhetoric; a chief operating officer who "sees no effectiveness in AI" is, to the host, just as much a populist. Jensen Huang reminds that generative AI arrived in real productivity only recently, so it is strange to blame it for layoffs that began earlier — "the facts are being fitted," Tanya sums up. The host is sure work will change and many will disappear from their roles, with the fanatics of their own business most vulnerable — ready to go into the red rather than admit the business is gone.

39:38Six Months of Courses Do Not Make a Programmer — a Fundamental Base Is Needed

Running a company in Russia from 2020, the host built IT programs for hundreds of thousands of students with Ilnar Shafigullin and kept asking how anyone becomes a programmer in six months: at the first meeting none of twenty directors knew DevOps. The hype of "two thousand dollars a month in ninety days" has to be balanced against mathematics, algorithmic thinking and a broad outlook. Tatiana backs classical education: five years of university build connections in the head, after which even a course on launching an Instagram reads structurally.

46:25One AI Cannot Be Assigned to Check Another and Be Called Reliable Control

This week's series of studies reminded that LLM judges are unreliable when evaluating complex research agents and leak sensitive attributes. The notion has appeared of an answer that is correct but useless to you: Sundar Pichai admitted Google's AI search can interpret a question too confidently, while AI Mode has passed a billion weekly users. When one model evaluates another, it is the same mistake as a person judging another without understanding who is in front of him — like ChatGPT recommending the host three events for a Saturday.

50:37Claude Trashed Codex's Code and Offered to Rewrite the Architecture Itself

Having loaded a large core written in Codex into Claude, the host got, on one project, a pile of architecture errors and a proposal: "Since Codex created such a mess, I will build everything first and then Codex fixes the small things" — Anthropic pushing its line. A second chat, on two other repositories, suggested continuing in Codex and accepted his refusal without that narrative. Claude wrote that "traces of Codex" are visible at once, and the host concludes: think not in agents but in software created by AI, and code will soon stop concerning us — just as Tanya does not care about the code in Figma or Archicad.

What this episode is about

The ToTheMoon Sunday podcast with Alexander Volchek and Tatiana Tsvetkova. The occasion is a week in which artificial intelligence was discussed as a system of influence: the Pope on power and the concentration of control, Sam Altman on jobs, former OpenAI researcher Daniel Kokotajlo on the US and China building AI into two "machines of destiny".

The first block is the papal encyclical, which treats AI as a heritage of humanity and places it in the tradition of the Church's social doctrine: human dignity, power, the concentration of control. The host quotes the lines about a "new Tower of Babel" and about AI needing to be "disarmed", and admits he sees populism in them: this can no longer be stopped, and such words do not affect what is happening. Tatiana answers that setting unattainable ideals is the point of religion, and the truth, as always, lies between apocalypse and idyll; she also suggests that the very need to earn money may go away, and sobers the picture with an example — ChatGPT Pro spent an hour reformatting a file and mixed up all the pictures.

Then come words nobody answers for: Altman is "glad he was wrong" about office jobs, and the host sees pre-IPO rhetoric in it; Trump's bill on giving politicians access to models ninety days before release was reversed this very week; the camps around China — Anthropic against Jensen Huang and Nvidia — keep shifting endlessly. Against this background Kokotajlo says the owners of AI companies and governments will not stop under any circumstances; the host adds that OpenAI will block countries for profit rather than over GDPR, that trillion-dollar companies are companies of the country, and that Europe, given two years by the head of Mistral, has already lost. In passing — the ChatGPT Pro Since 24 pen, one of ten thousand.

The central part is the two machines of destiny. The US center of power: private AI companies, clouds, chips, capital and the Pentagon; China's: the state, the party, industry, data and control. The US logic is to invent, deploy and monetize faster, China's to build the state and control faster; the weakness of the first is the gap between corporate interest and public control, of the second the rigidity and self-deception of centralized data. Hence the talk of false correlations — from a Whoop band praising coffee at night to laws that will be passed on AI's false conclusions — and Kokotajlo's main phrase: the danger is not evil AI but the disappearance of human scale, when a person asks not what is true but what the system considers optimal.

The Turing test has become an everyday problem: in a study GPT-4.5 was taken for a human 73% of the time, a detector judged the host's nephew's essay robot-written, and AI texts pass as human. Alexander Mashrabov's Higgsfield showed a full-length AI-made film at Cannes, and to the host it already "makes no difference" who the author is — what matters is whether the meaning is genuine and free of manipulation; handmade at fairs he regards as the same kind of convention. Tatiana objects: manipulation should be taken as a given, AI already knows what she will like, and a thing without a story and a soul — like a stool next to a chair — does not resonate with a person.

The host opens the argument about money with an offer from a man who built a hundred agents and closes it with a conclusion: the winner is not the one who can use the systems but the one who wants to understand the client's task; those who teach "earning with OpenAI or on Amazon" are frauds. In the argument about jobs he sets executives who "see no effectiveness" against Jensen Huang, who refuses to let old layoffs be blamed on AI, and against Meta, which endlessly fires and hires. From there, education: the experience of a company in Russia where programs for hundreds of thousands of students were built with Ilnar Shafigullin, the question "how does one become a programmer in six months", the hype of "two thousand dollars in ninety days" and a defense of the fundamental base; Tatiana backs classical education from her own experience.

Two cases close the episode. A series of studies reminded that one AI cannot be assigned to check another: LLM judges are unreliable on complex research agents and leak sensitive attributes, and a "correct but not for you" answer — as Sundar Pichai admitted about Google search — is routine with a billion weekly users of AI Mode. And the story of Claude versus Codex: Claude "trashed" the uploaded core completely and offered to rewrite the architecture itself — Anthropic pushing its line — while a second chat showed no such narrative. The host's conclusion: think not in agents but in software created by AI, and code will soon stop concerning us.

The episode is useful because it ties lofty words — the Pope's, Altman's, Kokotajlo's — to everyday checks: a wristband, a pen, a nephew's essay, the code of two repositories. Out of this comes one frame: machines of destiny are built by states and trillion-dollar companies, and what is left to a person is not to compete with them in knowledge of AI but to keep his own scale — to understand the task, to tell meaning from manipulation, and to stand on a fundamental base.

The episode's main frame is not an argument over whether the Pope or Kokotajlo is right but a transfer of their words to the everyday level: the host tests the "machines of destiny" against a Whoop band, a nephew's essay, a ChatGPT pen and two repositories that Claude judged differently. The practical conclusion follows: while states and trillion-dollar companies build systems to run the world, a person needs to keep his own scale — to understand the task, to tell meaning from manipulation, and to stand on a fundamental base rather than on knowing the menu items.

Episode transcript

The episode is in Russian; below is an English reading guide to the transcript (the full EN transcript is a machine translation). Voice matching applied to 145 segments: 0 identified, 0 mixed, 145 probable, and 0 unresolved.

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