Spiritual Takeover and How It Appears in a Person’s Life

Does a person who occasionally uses substances, goes to parties or travels to try ayahuasca for a “spiritual experience” encounter dark energies? And what about someone who drinks coffee and brushes their teeth every day? In this conversation with Galya, I explain why dark energies are present in every part of our lives and why a person is in the spiritual world even when simply brushing their teeth.

We talk about what a spiritual takeover is, what can take a person over, and what happens to someone when a “demon” is cast out of them. We also discuss why I speak of a price to pay, what a healthy understanding of responsibility is — using tea as an example — and how my daughter and I worked through whether she should go to a birthday party she had agreed to attend but didn’t want to go to.

Every part of life is an encounter with dark energies

– What if a person has addictions — uses occasionally, not on a regular basis, goes to some parties — is that also an encounter with dark energy? Or what is it, really? Or, say, if someone travels somewhere and uses ayahuasca — supposedly for a spiritual experience?

– And what do you think: if someone goes out for coffee every day, do they encounter dark energies or not? If someone brushes their teeth every day, can they encounter dark energies?

– Of course.

– You agree? In essence, I just want to bring in this aspect: every part of our life can be an endless encounter with dark energies. Let me give a simple example. We open Instagram. Can we encounter only warm, light energies there? We can. And we can also encounter an endless number of dark ones. People today have the opportunity to encounter very different energies.

If a person lives in an isolated space, without cell service or the internet, somewhere in a village, doing a very narrow kind of work, then in theory they may not encounter dark energies. In theory. What does “in theory” mean? In practice they encounter them endlessly, because they live among Lucifer and Ahriman. They may avoid dark energies as the social framework perceives the dark world. But when I talk about brushing your teeth, you have to understand: Lucifer and Ahriman are always present here, they are always there.

Can you isolate yourself at some point — for instance, while recording this video or while saying this? You can. At a given moment you can isolate yourself from these energies, push them aside or migrate into a particular space. And sometimes a person does this unconsciously.

Let me point out an interesting aspect: on the whole, migrating into a particular block is a fairly serious action. You have experienced it at various meetings, in spiritual sessions; you and I have experienced it together. There is an isolated room, a particular space: you seem to be present in the city or somewhere else, yet it feels as if you simply aren’t there — there is a kind of phantom of you, an image. People even stop noticing you, because all the energies are completely isolated, there is no access to them at all. And someone, for example, tries to get into this isolated space.

But an ordinary person does not live in an isolated space. Their task is to live calmly, to recognize and understand that Lucifer and Ahriman are present in the world. That presence is in every phone the moment you pick it up. I remember a good description by Rudolf Steiner: you put a safe in your house — and that presence is in the safe. In the safe! You and I constantly use objects that have an Ahrimanic basis — communications, for example, or computers. Does that mean all of it is bad?

No, it doesn’t, not in any way. In exactly the same way, dark energies exist within the light spiritual world and, let’s put it this way, feed on it. Though this, again, is a somewhat abstract description.

A person lives in the spiritual world

So if a person travels and takes some substances to get a spiritual experience — they call it getting a spiritual experience — they are simply performing a particular action with a particular concentration. Of course, they immerse themselves more deeply in certain worlds and ruin their state when they touch specific things: touch weapons, shout at another person, take certain drugs and so on. Of course. But with all that, can they at the same time drop into grace and into light worlds? They can, because there is a spiritual system for which this is merely part of a particular experience.

A person can be in different states at the same time — this is very important to understand. It doesn’t make them any better or any worse, but a person can be in different states. So the yardstick by which a holy person is someone who has one set of clothes, who lives in a cave, or some other such distinction, is merely a constructed notion of a very conditional asceticism.

This is a wrong understanding — both of asceticism and of human consciousness as a whole. What difference does it make how many clothes someone has if, thirty percent of the time, thoughts of killing other people arise in their system? What does their asceticism consist of — fighting those thoughts? Then what do clothes have to do with it? What significance do clothes have?

Can a person, without taking drugs, communicate endlessly with dark worlds, Galya? Of course you understand that they can. Can they come into contact with them? They can. The point is that people want to touch the spiritual world through trips, taking substances or attending retreats with various drugs. They fall into exaltation and call that the spiritual world.

But the thing is, when they brush their teeth, they are in the spiritual world. That is the whole point. They live in the spiritual world.

Yesterday I was sitting and painting, and my daughter was sitting opposite me, drawing. We have a big space where someone is drawing from time to time, and it so happened that we were drawing at the same time. She says: “Dad, what are you painting?” And I have one big painting — you’ve seen it — that I am gradually finishing, part by part.

And I say: “The spiritual world.” I thought: what am I actually painting? Usually people say: I’m drawing an apple, a tree, a car, a landscape — something they saw, something they dreamed, a fairy tale, a comic. “I’m painting the spiritual world,” I say. She asks: “What does that mean?” I start to answer — and she goes, “Uh-huh,” and leaves without understanding anything. I say: “This is our world, where we live; it is part of that same spiritual world. I’m painting our world, our life.”

And what was I painting? Some part of this life. Exactly as she was drawing some part of it — some trees, something else. And why ask what you are drawing? What do you want to hear? After all, she was drawing some trees. But she wasn’t drawing trees — she was drawing some state of her own. For some reason she noticed them, for some reason she decided to convey them, to express them. At that moment she was in a particular process. Her drawing is a kind of process. And it is unknown what comes first: her process or the drawing. It is unknown what is primary and what is secondary.

There are people who write music because the music comes first. And there are people who write music because they are in a space, and then they express themselves, express that space, through music. The music is simply a secondary effect. You and I know this part and have discussed it many times.

There is a vision, it comes, and you want to take certain actions. I, for example, want to do certain business projects or meet certain people. I want to meet them — and I act toward that. Or I see that a meeting with them will happen, and the desire forms in me for that future meeting. These are different things. Completely different.

That is why I would not judge dark worlds by simple, ordinary events of life. That is a complete abstraction. Measuring people by such events is, I think, a defeat altogether — a defeat even for those who do the measuring. Because a person commits so much evil without bad actions — without socially bad actions. Simply an incredible amount of evil. Why measure those bad actions at all, then? Why look at them?

We live in a world where a license for evil has been issued. And to some, a license for good has been issued — good that, in essence, turns into evil.

What a spiritual takeover is

– When you say that a person has been taken over, that a spiritual being has been taken over — what does that mean?

– That’s a good question, especially for this channel. On this channel we do deeper work after all — expanding our own perception. Although the channel is called “Meditation,” it is about directing a person toward expanding their perception, their knowledge, their study of the world — unlike my other channel, one of the main ones in terms of human development. And this is a good place to look at the topic of being taken over.

– Let me add something. I think in the fourth meditation — definitely one of the first ten — when you transmit the meditation, you say something about a takeover. I don’t remember it word for word, but then comes the exact phrase that there will be a price to pay for it. That’s where the question comes from: what is a takeover?

– To consider the notion of a takeover, we need to look a little more broadly at how the human system is formed in general: how it is built in, how to understand it. What is the system called “a human being”?

We must understand that every person is, fundamentally, at a certain stage of development, within a certain evolution of their own development. All people are at different stages of development. Of course there is some middle point, but there is also a certain minimum and a certain maximum in terms of the possibility of incarnating as a human being.

Why do I say there is a minimum? Because people whose spiritual system had the structure of the Lemurian period of human development are not incarnating now. Just as people at the maximum of current human development are not incarnating now — at least not in large numbers. Because in theory that would be the current hierarchy of archangels. In theory one could imagine that angels are reflected somewhere — it doesn’t matter whether in icons, in discussions or in an understanding of human hierarchy along a certain evolutionary line, for example Rudolf Steiner’s line, or even the Christian line of description. Let’s imagine that some maximum could be identified somewhere.

But the width of this range is simply a crazy, incredible multidimensionality of where a person can be in the system of development. And within this system of development, we can consider different notions: what can a person be taken over by? Within the current specific time or the current incarnation, a person can be taken over:

• By hereditary energies.
• By Lucifer’s energies.
• By the energies of the country where they were born, or the country where they live, or the space they are in.

Can a person be taken over, for example, structurally — by the energies of some corporation? That is a level of very narrow observation. If we rise a little higher and look at their spiritual being, then, fundamentally, in our time a huge number of human soul-spirit systems have gone dark. Such a system is not super-developed in terms of its life in the time between death and birth. This system is fairly dimmed, although to some extent it still functions, moves, glows. And there are many such points of light outside time where every person shines. But on the whole this system has gone dark. Is this dimming a takeover or not? Or is it a kind of evolution? And there is also a completely different zone, when there is energy.

You and I filmed a video about the dark and the light — I think it didn’t make it into this particular video and will most likely be a separate one. If we consider the notion of dark structures or dark systems multidimensionally, could they have taken over a person or their system? They could. They could take over their spiritual system like a cancerous tumor: settle on it and close it off from perception. Could they? They could. They could simply close off a person’s spiritual being from perception.

By the way, I have observed many processes when I ended up at various gatherings where people practiced what is called casting demons or some kind of takeovers out of a person. Interestingly, the person really wants this to happen. But it is important to understand that when such a being is cast out at a deep level, the person essentially becomes a different personality.

And a different personality doesn’t mean that life has become better or worse. Many people would not want to cast this cancerous tumor or demon out of themselves, because it would deprive them of a huge number of different possibilities they have.

And people don’t want to see it that way. They don’t. They say: “Can I keep my business, and my money, and my joy, and my happiness, and my children — keep everything — and also have the demon cast out of me?”

Which path you want to follow

By the way, I am in no way trying to say here that true, light development means the absence of what are called social or material benefits. It has nothing to do with that at all. That is merely part of a person’s life and of living it. And we all know this perfectly well.

Just recently I was walking down my street, here where I live. One of the neighboring houses belongs to a former head of Intel. I was walking and thought: her house stands next to mine. But I was never the head of Intel. I live next to her. And my view is better, and my lot is better, and my house is better. And I was never the head of Intel. How are these connected? There are completely different causes for how a state is felt, for certain states arising, for living through them — for what a person truly lives through.

Of course, she has some other houses as well. I am in no way trying to elevate or diminish anything here. But this topic itself matters, and it should always be considered very rationally, very calmly — not from the position that is so often voiced: that what surrounds you doesn’t matter, and what matters is health or something else. Everything matters.

The price to pay and cause and effect

Everything matters. The question is what the causes and effects behind the appearance of one thing or another are. And these causes and effects are also connected with the various takeovers that can occur.

When I say that you will pay a price for something — I put it that way from time to time: that you will pay for it a great deal and for a very long time — this is a healthy perception of reality. On the one hand, every person pays a price, because all people here are in a karmic process. The karmic process is a reckoning. On the other hand, the karmic process is the foundation of human development and of its naturalness. And you could say that it is not a reckoning but simply a person’s movement — and the very concept of a reckoning disappears there altogether.

When I use the words “a price to pay,” I use them for socially minded heads — for people who want to perceive everything exclusively socially — so that they realize the truth of what is happening: everything has to be paid for. But what do you pay with? What matters is how a person perceives these reckonings, what they truly perceive as a reckoning, how deeply they truly understand cause-and-effect connections and truly accept them.

This is very important. And here, Galya, there is this point: people are not capable of perceiving all cause-and-effect connections. And that is natural. There is a huge chunk of cause-and-effect connections that they will never perceive, and they will never understand where these connections lie. That is the very essence of the naturalness of human development. If people perceived all cause-and-effect connections, they would — bang! — immediately realize them all. This is starting point number one for a person’s development.

There is no task of realizing all cause-and-effect connections. Then what is the task? To live truly, to truly come to know what is happening.

A person will say: “So I can do bad things, then?” Yes, please, do bad things or good things. Do whatever you like. You can do bad things. I’m telling you honestly: do you agree that one can do bad things? Everything is allowed. “I suppose one can.” Basically, of course one can. You look at me like: “So what’s the question?” Of course one can.

Are you aware of the whole connection

So an interesting aspect emerges: it turns out that one can do bad things too. Please, do bad things, do anything at all. And at that moment a person doesn’t understand at all what is going on. Can you imagine: a person has been allowed to do bad things! They say: “Then what are you talking about? Are you promoting doing bad things?” No, I am not promoting doing bad things. It is simply your choice. The question is whether you are aware of it or not — whether you are really aware of the whole connection.

That is why I gave the example of being aware of the connection: when I was drinking tea, I thought that by drinking black tea I was doing something not very good for my digestive tract. Galya is sitting here now, thinking: “You shouldn’t be drinking tea, and during a talk at that, stretching that tea out for an hour.” Nothing could be worse.

A bad action — drinking tea for a whole hour. A really bad action, obviously. Let’s stop doing it. Am I aware of the consequences that are inside? I am. I fully accept that this is a bad action. Why did I do it? For some reason I did. It stretched out because that’s the state I was in. I wasn’t in a restaurant where I had to drink my tea in five minutes and leave — then I would at least have minimized some risk. And by drinking it for an hour I made it even worse.

By the way, when people ask me, “Do you drink tea or coffee?” — no one asks how long I spend drinking it. But to me, as someone who loves Chinese teas, it seems an important question. Now, of course, I drink much less: everyone around me forbids it, and I forbid it to myself — or rather, I don’t forbid, I limit. In the Chinese system, as you and I understand perfectly well, the fundamental thing is long tea drinking. There is a big difference between drinking Chinese tea at once or drinking it for a long time, drinking a little or a lot.

I remember a close friend of mine from India, a Brahmin in the spiritual system of Vedic astrology, always said that Chinese tea taken in a small portion is medicine. That is the essence of Chinese tea: you need to drink a lot of it, otherwise, if you drink it in micro-portions, you will sharply exert a very strong effect on your body. If you drink a micro-portion of pu-erh from a particular region, your body will perceive it as medicine. If you drink it all at once — four hundred milliliters — the body will perceive it as food, simply pass it through the system and cleanse it that way. A big difference? A big one. There is a big difference between drinking it for two hours and for two minutes.

So: how well do you simply understand this? And then: what quality of tea are you drinking? Where is it from? Why are you doing it? At what point in time? After a meal, before a meal? How much time has passed? What did you eat or not eat? What is your system like?

Take you and me, Galya: I was born in the Soviet system, you in the post-Soviet one, but on the whole our upbringing comes from the post-Soviet system. We have the concept of herbs, medicinal herbs. Since I live in America, I am always amazed when people say to me: “Do you have herbs there? Can you buy them?” You always just laugh and think: “Do you really think that a huge number of herbs don’t grow on the territory of the United States of America?”

And what are herbs — medicine or not medicine? Is rosemary a medicine? For some people, in some country, it is a medicinal preparation. And somewhere else it is just a thing you throw into your food and eat in the same quantities as people in Belarus or Russia eat parsley or dill. A large amount of parsley is just as ordinary a food as ivan-chai is for someone who drinks it. And it is not medicine at all. And for someone else it is medicine. This is a very interesting aspect of how we perceive everything.

Why do I give these examples? Because this is precisely a healthy perception of your own system: where a person actually stands in terms of understanding responsibility — truly, a real understanding of responsibility. Then the responsibility for certain actions, for instance for drinking tea, is a little different. And the responsibility of a doctor who describes and explains this becomes completely different, if they have managed to convey it and explain it.

Studying other people

We recently filmed a video for my channel with Tanya Tsvetkova, and we were discussing exactly this topic: can a person endlessly be in the process of coming to know another person, in good attention to another person? I film a lot with Tanya for the main channel, and with Galya we film for the spiritual one — for the meditation channel.

And I said: “Imagine, Tanya: from childhood, every day — at school, at home with your parents, the neighbors, everyone — you are constantly in the process of coming to know one another. Every minute you are taught to come to know other people; that is all they ever do. They tell you how important it is to come to know other people. When you drink tea, they tell you about it. When you eat buckwheat, they tell you about it. When they set the dishes on the table, they tell you about it directly. They show you the whole spectrum of everything, they truly show you what it is. They don’t diminish or inflate its importance, but show what it means in the world as a whole, what kind of energy it is.”

That is a different system of human development. Truly incredible. Then there is no need to talk about dishes, about proper cutlery, about what is cultured and what is uncultured. It is enough to talk about the need to study other people.

As soon as you are told that you need to study other people constantly, you begin to study everything around you yourself.

You are constantly studying everything. You begin to understand responsibility, you begin to understand cause-and-effect connections more — you really, truly begin to be aware of them. You simply begin to understand a little more about what you didn’t understand: cucumbers, tomatoes, honey, men, women, school, mathematics, physics. You begin to understand everything better. You have a completely different approach to knowing the world.

From a state of love and acceptance

When it comes to responsibility, I recently had a very interesting story. Two days ago my daughter came to me and said: “I was invited to a birthday party and I agreed. But I don’t want to go. What should I do?” I say: “You can calmly decline.” She says: “Can I write in a message that I’m just sick and that’s why I’m not coming?” I say: “That’s a lie.”

She says: “So I’m lying either way.” I say: “Not either way. If you write that you won’t be able to come, that’s not a lie. You simply won’t be able to come.”

Then we start discussing it further. I say: “Actually, you will bear responsibility either way.” She says: “Why is that?” I say: “Because you agreed to go to a person whom, as you now say, you wouldn’t want to go to as a person. So you will bear responsibility either way — based on what you feel, what you think about, how you relate to this person. You will already bear responsibility for that. And also for not thinking at that moment.”

With a tear, she says: “I didn’t think, and I made such a quick decision. At that moment I wanted to help this one and that one. And now I don’t want to.” I say: “So it’s you who doesn’t want to. You wanted to help. Then you get ready and go to the birthday party tomorrow with a joyful heart. And have a good day there together.” — “It will be boring there. There may not be any decent people.” I say: “You’ll bear responsibility. Decline, then.” And I also say: “You are already bearing this responsibility either way — even through this conversation.”

And the more I talked with her, the more I saw that she was bearing responsibility, and the more I showed her that she should go to the birthday party after all. But I explained to her that, if she went, her only salvation was to go there from a state of love and acceptance. The only possibility: if you go there — and another friend is going too — the two of you say to each other: “Why are we treating it this way? Why are we talking like this? Let’s just come in a good state and in a good mood.”

A very difficult case to observe, to live through, to become aware of, to shape, to understand. All of us, all people, have lived through thousands of such cases, states, details and made wrong decisions or good ones. And figuring out here what is humane, what is real, is far from easy if you look superficially.

And there is no difference whether you go to the birthday party or not — no difference at all. The difference lies in how you really relate to the matter and how ready you are to look at it truthfully. After all, the child’s task was to see a little more truth.

Interestingly, when this discussion was going on, it was already late — half past nine in the evening; I am usually asleep at that time, and most of the household is asleep. The other children were sitting there, and my younger daughter — she is four years younger than the elder one. At some point she wanted to say something, but I raised my hand like this, and she said, “Okay,” and left. Then I thought: “Listen, Ivetta, come back. What did you want to say? Did you want to give some advice?” She comes back and says: “Actually, of course you have to go. Otherwise you hurt the person’s feelings.”

I thought: how interesting what this reflection sets in motion. Such a situation affects not just one person — not only the one whose birthday party it is — it affects a huge group of people: those who are listening, those who are nearby, and all future life among all these people. It affects a huge number of people.

And why is that? Because people do not know how to truly look at what is happening; they do not truly see cause-and-effect connections.

They measure everything by ordinary, simple things: are you my friend or not, do we spend a lot of time together or a little, are we in a good mood or a bad one. They measure life by aspects like these.

Of course, this is not easy to hear. Yesterday I spent a long time telling my wife — I have repeated it and keep repeating it — that in my worldview I will try to treat my own children the same as other people’s, my children the same as you, and you the same as my mother, my sister and the woman selling ice cream on the street. Try. Do I always succeed? Not always. Sometimes I slip: I’ll choose you, or someone else, or a child, or something else. But I want to do it this way. I dream of doing it this way — in the good sense of the word. There is no dream there, and no goals either — it is rather a true living of my life. I simply want to be in this, in this knowing.

Is it easy for my wife to listen to this? Very hard. You know, on the one hand, you would want your husband to say that to you. Can you imagine? On the one hand, you would want that. After all, you strive for your husband to be in a zone of knowing, of exploring, of freedom, of perception. Because you yourself would like to be in the process of coming to know people, in that direction of attention and movement. And on the other hand, if he said that to you, in some situations you would take it differently.

This requires being in communication, in constant discussion, in living it through. Without bravado: not to look better or cooler, not to get more likes or views, not so that someone praises someone, not so that someone is liked or disliked by someone — but from the truth. By the way, Galya, I have not yet seen a single person to whom I personally explained this who could tell me anything different.

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